THE DESERET WEEKLY.
Truth and Liberty.
No. 19. SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH, OCTOBER 24, 1896. VOL. LIII.
REMARKS
Made at the General Conference on the
afternoon of Monday, , in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake
City
-[REPORTED BY ARTHUR WINTER.]-
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF.
I did not intend to occupy any more
time in this conference, but there is a
subject or two that I feel in duty bound
to talk upon, and I hope the Saints will
give me their prayers and faith, that I
may be enabled to do my duty. In
order to arrive at the principles and
subject I wish to speak of, I feel dis-
posed to deviate from my general course
of testimony in some respects.
There are two powers on the earth
and in the midst of the inhabitants of
the earth—the power of God and the
power of the devil. In our history we
have had some very peculiar ex
periences. When God has had a people
on the earth, it matters not in what age,
Lucifer, the son of the morning, and the
millions of fallen spirits that were cast
out of heaven, have warred against
God, against Christ, against the work of
God, and against the people of God.
And they are not backward in doing it
in our day and generation. Whenever
the Lord set His hand to perform any
work, those powers labored to over-
throw it. I have a little experience in
this direction that I want to refer to.
Many of you probably have read the
history of the first proclamation of the
Gospel in England, under the presidency
of Heber C Kimball, in 1837. Just
previous to that I crossed Lake Ontario
with a man by the name of Russell, from
Canada into the United States. That
man walked the steamer almost day and
night, moaning and groaning. What
was the matter? He had a class of
spirits that stayed with him night and
day, distressing him. What he had
done that they had power over him I do
not know. When a man does his duty
and keeps the commandments of God,
those spirits have no power over him,
although he may be distressed in a
measure from their operation. This
man went to England, and those spirits
went with him. He was with the
Apostles there, and while they were
holding a conference there he was so
troubled with those spirits that Brother
Heber C Kimball and Orson Hyde and
the brethren who were there laid hands
upon him and cast those evil spirits out
of him. When they left him they seized
upon Brother Hyde, and he fell to the
floor as though he had been knocked
on the head with a club. Brother Kim-
ball and the brethren immediately laid
hands upon him, and the evil spirits left
him. They then fell upon Brother Kim
ball and tried to overcome him.
But the vision of his mind was open and
he saw them in the room. They gnashed
their teeth at him; but did they over-
come him? Brother Kimball held the
Apostleship and he stood at the head
of that Mission, and God gave him pow-
er over those spirits, and they were re
buked and left him. This was the be-
ginning of their labors there. In 1840,
when the Apostles were sent to England,
we had a similar experience. The
history of my travels in Herefordshire,
Gloucestershire and Worcestershire is
published and known to the Church.
After laboring there some eight months,
Brothers Heber C. Kimball and George
A. Smith invited me to go to London
You all know what kind of men Broth-
ers Kimball and Smith were. They
had power and brought a great many
into the Church. We three went into
the City of London to undertake to
open doors in that great city. The first
man who opened his doors to receive us
was a man by the name of Morgan.
The very day we entered that house it
was filled with evil spirits, who sought
to destroy us. We felt their power day
after day. They did not particularly in
jure us at that time, but we knew they
were with us. The incident that I am
going to refer to now occurred after
Brother Kimball had returned to
Manchester. Brother George A Smith
and myself were left there. We sat up
one night till about 11 o'clock, talking
about the Gospel of Christ, and then
went to bed. The room in which we
slept was small; there was about three
and a half feet between our cots.
Those spirits were gathered together in
that room and sought to destroy us.
They fell upon us with the determina-
tion to take our lives. The distress, the
suffering and the horror that rested up
on me I never experienced before nor
since. While in this condition a spirit
said to me, "Pray to the Lord." Well,
a man in that kind of warfare, when he
is choking almost to death, is in a
peculiar position to pray. Nevertheless
I went to praying with all the power I
had. I knew we would die unless God
opened some door for our deliverance,
because we were being choked to death,
and I prayed the Lord, in the name of
Jesus Christ, to preserve our lives.
While I was praying, the door opened
and three messengers entered, and the
room was filled with light equal to the
blazing light of the sun at mid-day.
Those messengers were all dressed in
the robes of immortal beings. Who
they were I know not. They laid hands
upon me and my companion, and re-
buked those evil powers, and we were
saved. From that hour to this day, not
only our lives were saved, but those
powers were rebuked by the angels of
God so that no Elder since has been
tormented with them in London.
I name this because there is a prin-
ciple in it. From the day that the Pro-
phet Joseph Smith was called upon by
the angel of God and the plates of the
Book of Mormon given into his hands,
these evil spirits labored for his death,
and finally his blood was shed by the
power of the devil. You know about
that. It is before the heavens and the
earth, and has got to be settled for.
Those spirits are wherever the Saints of
God are, and they will follow this up
until He who holds the keys of death
and hell binds that old serpent, sets a
seal upon him, and shuts him up for a
thousand years. These evil spirits are
all around us. They follow every Elder
of Israel at home and abroad. They
tempt me; they tempt you, and will as
long as we dwell in the flesh and they
have their agency and power. Why?
Because they know the Priesthood is
here; they know the power of God is
here; they know the authority is here to
seal blessings upon the heads of the
children of men, and to preach the
Gospel to the nations of the earth, that
they may be prepared for the coming of
the Lord Jesus Christ. Knowing this,
if they can get any power over you and
me they will exercise it.
There has been some talk here about
myself, and my counselors, and the
Twelve Apostles, and the position we
hold as leaders of the people. I have
been in the Apostleship for fifty seven
years. I have been through all the
apostasies in this Church, if I may be
allowed to use that expression, from the
day of the organization of the Twelve
Apostles. On one occasion two Apos-
tles came to me while I was in Kirtland,
and told me that Joseph Smith was a
fallen prophet, and that they wanted to
put another man in his place—Oliver
Cowdery. They wanted to know what
I would do about it. Said I, "Every
man that lifts his hand against the Pro-
phet of God will go to hell, unless he
repents of his sins." Well, about half
of them did repent; the others did not,
and they lost their crown and glory, and
other men have taken their places.
My brethren and sisters, there is some-
thing pressing upon my mind that I want
to say. We have arrived at a point here
with regard to circumstances that it is
my duty to take up as the President of
the Church. The First Presidency and
the Twelve Apostles were never more
united as a body than they are today.
Our spirits are united. We believe to-
gether, we work together, we pray to-
gether; and we believe in each other, be-
cause we are all trying to do the will of
God. This is the case with all of us,
with one exception. That exception is
Brother Moses Thatcher. A great many
people marvel and wonder why some-
thing is not done with him. Some have
said we were afraid of Moses Thatcher.
I am not afraid of Moses Thatcher, nor
of any other man who breathes the
breath of life, when it comes to a matter
of duty. But I am afraid to disobey
God, or to not perform my duty in any
position that I am called to in the Church.
There has been a great deal said with
regard to Brother Moses Thatcher, and
many have wondered why something
was not done about him. Well, I will
say that this is a matter that belongs to
the Twelve Apostles. He is a member
of that quorum, and of course it is their
duty to take hold of that work and at-
tend to it until it is settled. But I have
felt, as the President of the Church, it is
my duty to not let this conference pass
without saying something upon this sub-
ject. Brother Moses Thatcher has been
a very sick man. Preparations have
been made by the Twelve Apostles to
settle this difficulty with him in council;
but he has been in the condition I speak
of. What is the difficulty with Brother
Thatcher? The difficulty is, he has not
been with his quorum in spirit for years.
He has not been united with them
hardly, I may say, since the death of
President Taylor. It is not his declining
to sign this declaration of principle that
was brought up at the last conference by
the leaders of Israel. This is a matter
of comparatively small consequence. I
say here—and I say the truth—Brother
Thatcher has not been in fellowship with
us for a series of years. He has not
met with his quorum. He has spent
days and days in this city, when he was
perfectly able to go about and do busi-
ness, and has not met with them—
neither at their sacrament meetings nor
other meetings. Now, this cannot re-
main in this way. As I have said, these
evil spirits affect men. There is a spirit
affecting him, and not a good spirit
either. With regard to his standing with
his quorum, he should have met with
them and talked these things over, but
he has not done it. He has met with
them comparatively few times since
President Taylor's death.
Brethren and sisters, these are truths.
The Apostles know that he has neglect-
ed to meet with them at times when he
could and should have done so. He
has been at difference with them in many
things that have transpired. He has
been by himself in his labor, and for
himself, and not for the Church. Now, I
want to say that neither Moses Thatcher
nor any other man on the face of the
earth can stand in the way of this Church.
We have had almost whole quorums of
Apostles that have been in the road, and
they have had to be moved out of it,
because the kingdom of God cannot
stop for anybody—for Wilford Woodruff,
for Moses Thatcher, or for anybody else.
Unless we work with the Saints of God,
with the Priesthood of God and with the
organization of His Church, we cannot
have any power or influence. I make
this testimony because it is my duty. I
have thought a great deal of Moses
Thatcher. I had a good deal to do with
his coming into the quorum of the
Apostles. I had a great respect for his
family. I have for any man that will
bear his testimony to the Gospel and
kingdom of God. But he has stopped
that. He has taken a different course
with regard to this, and he occupies that
position today. I name this because he
is not in a condition to be tried. The
Lord's kingdom is going to roll on. If
I took a stand against my counselors
and against the Twelve Apostles, and
we were not united together, I could not
go with them. But the Lord is with us,
and with His people. Whatever is re-
quired at our hands we want to perform
it. I hope that the little time we spend
here in the flesh, before we go into the
valley of the shadow of death, we will
pursue a course wherein we will be
satisfied when we come to meet the
Lord, and Joseph Smith, and the patri-
archs and prophets. We will meet these
people in the morning of the first resur-
rection. Many of them have got their
resurrected bodies, and those who have
not will have their bodies raised from
the grave in an immortal condition.
Who can sacrifice eternal life, and a part
in the first resurrection, to stand with
their wives and children in celestial
glory, for the honor of this life or to
gratify ambition? I cannot afford to do
it, neither can you. We will hail Brother
Moses Thatcher with every sentiment
of our hearts when he will meet with us
unite with us, repent of his wrong-
doings, and help carry on the work of
God as he should do. Without this, he
cannot go with us.
God bless you. I bear testimony to
the heavens and the earth that this is
the church and kingdom of God. We
have got to live our religion and to be
united in order to bear off the kingdom
and receive those blessings that lie on
the other side of the veil for us. I pray
that His blessing and spirit may rest, not
only on the First Presidency and Apos-
tles and the whole Priesthood and the
Saints, but upon Moses Thatcher, that
his eyes may be opened to see, his ears
to hear, and his heart to comprehend
his position and duty before God and
man.